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  • 3 years 23 weeks ago | MRE1957
    MRE1957's picture

    How is this any different from back in WWII when the commanding officer (Patton, maybe?) would go down the line inspecting the troops, calling out every infraction? And ya gotta love the expression Kirby drew of Big Bear getting his nose tweaked by Darkseid in panel three! It was the insertion of this kind of dark humor that elevated the Forever People, New Gods and Mister Miracle above the rest of what I was reading back then.

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | John S.
    John S.'s picture

    But Mike Royer didn't do the lettering on this one. It looks like Gaspar Saladino's work to me.

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | ofolayne
    ofolayne's picture

    Yeah - it was shown in both # 3 and 5.
    But here was the BEST!!!

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | Lockjaw
    Lockjaw's picture

    I'm pretty sure that they showed Orion's true face in an earlier issue. The deep six arc?

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | Lockjaw
    Lockjaw's picture

    Probably just images that stuck in his head -----a guy in a fez, a burly guy with distinctive facial hair, an vaguely Asian bad guy.

    I don't think they're saying those guys WERE the exiles--created in 1963 and brought back in 1968--but that Kirby created a group of stereotype 'foreign looking' bad guys and then later similar looking guys were created.

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | Mike T
    Mike T's picture

    Not even close to the Exiles, IMO.

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | MRE1957
    MRE1957's picture

    It's a shame because it looks like it didn't need to be. Plus, there is a fair amount of white out which is unusual for Giacoia. Still, all in all, a significant cover.

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | MRE1957
    MRE1957's picture

    After being blown away by the the New Gods backstory, I wondered how Jack would follow it up. BOY, WAS I NOT DISAPPOINTED! An epic brother-vs-brother battle with Kalibak, culminating in the revelation of Orion's true face! It rounded out my Top 3 New Gods issues that started with #6 (The Glory Boat) then #7 (The Pact) and finally #8 (The Death Wish of Terrible Turpin").

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | Rand HOPPE
    Ok
    Rand HOPPE's picture

    panel 6 (second to last) of page 10 (page 14 of the comic) of "The Stronghold of Doctor Strange!" from Marvel's Tales of Suspense 41, dated May 1963.

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | Lockjaw
    Lockjaw's picture

    Here's one that is a little more reasonable...............

    http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/exils1.htm

    Maybe Kirby just had generic bad guys images in his head and those images popped back into his mind when thinking a group of underlings

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | Rand HOPPE
    Rand HOPPE's picture

    ...seems like over-enthusiastic "continuity archaeology".

    panel 6 (second to last) of the last page of "The Stronghold of Doctor Strange!" from Marvel's Tales of Suspense 41, dated May 1963.

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | Pete Von Sholly (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture

    I LOVE the drawing of the Red Skull. Who but Kirby could (or would even try) to get such ATTITUDE into a character. He clearly relished drawing this villain as cool and sophisticated. The pose, the cigarette holder, the Skull not even looking at Cap... he is confident and arrogant, Wonderful characterization. Jack brought so much to his work!

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | Lockjaw
    Lockjaw's picture

    Wish I could post a screencap of those couple of panels---there is some similarity as I recall. At any rate, one of those Marvel indexes from the 80s/90s lists that IM issue as the first appearance for some of the "Exiles"

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | ofolayne
    ofolayne's picture

    Hi Lockjaw

    Can't say it seems to me that that rumor has much going for it.

    I reckon it would have been simpler for Kirby to make up virtually generic new Nazis
    than scan an old Iron Man that he'd probably forgotten about for ideas. And as you said,
    any similarities I could find are pretty obscure.

    And let's not forget, after this Cap issue, Jack still gave Marvel Annihilus, Maximus' glorious
    new suit, Mangog, and Pluto's new duds. And maybe more. He just couldn't help himself!

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | MRE1957
    MRE1957's picture

    Thanks Tom. I can see how doing that would harden the surface and make it smoother. Too bad the ironing trick wasn't passed on to Berry from Royer.

    And the fact that Mike thought creatively to solve this problem elevates him, to me, as one of the top embellishers of all time.

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | Mike T
    Mike T's picture

    I'd say that he must have used a mechanical pen and cut through the paper on every line and edge he did. (But if anybody else has another explanation, I'm all ears.)

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | Tom Kraft
    Tom Kraft's picture

    Jack bought his own bristol board at the time. DC did not provide it. Jack bought cheap quality paper that had a porous surface. When using a crow pen, the ink would spread and bleed.

    Mike Royer used to iron the boards before inking in an attempt to minimize the problem.

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | Lockjaw
    Lockjaw's picture

    This book was drawn after the point where Kirby pretty much stopped introducing new characters for Marvel.

    I've heard it said that most of this motley crew appeared as a cameo in an early issue of Iron Man that Kirby drew---TOS 40, 41 or 43. It was said he figured that since he had already drawn them that they were already Marvel's property---so he kind of gave them something they thought was new---that actually was something they already had.

    It's the last page of one of those 3 early Iron Man's he did, but I think you could go either way on if they are the same group or not. One sure does seem to be wearing Grunning's big cloak though.

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | MRE1957
    MRE1957's picture

    Usually I'm not a big fan of D. Bruce Berry's inking but this is certainly one of his best pages. The blacks are spotted well and there is a good use of thicks and thins. However, when you zoom in, you will see the edge of every line (even the panel borders) isn't sharp and smooth. Would like to know what could account for that.

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | MRE1957
    MRE1957's picture

    Only Kirby could come up this motley crew... Gruning!... Baldini!... General Ching!... Iron-Hand Hauptmann!... Krushki!... Cadavus... and, of course, they are all led by... The Red Skull!

    Plus, all that excitement for only 12¢!

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | MRE1957
    MRE1957's picture

    It's like I'm looking at a Golden Age Kirby CA splash page! Yahoo!

  • 3 years 24 weeks ago | MRE1957
    MRE1957's picture

    I believe this to be the earliest (and maybe only) S&K Captain America splash page in existence. I've seen an earlier page but it is not a splash. It is an interior story page from Captain America #5. Does anyone know the history of how this art survived? Who saved it? Was it given back to either Joe or Jack? (And isn't Howard Ferguson's lettering on the name 'FANG" just perfect?) So sad that so little Golden Age original art still exists, especially pre-WWII due to not knowing it's eventual value and all of the paper drives to support the war effort.

  • 3 years 25 weeks ago | Mike T
    Mike T's picture

    I couldn't agree more, MRE1957! Each inker had his own take on Kirby, and each added something (Colletta erasures notwithstanding) to what I like to call the Kirby Kollective. It's so great that Jack's work was divided up between the 3 ink artists, giving more variety to sustain us over the ensuing decades.

    I've gained a lot of appreciation for Syd's contributions since I started coming here to view the original art. The coloring on the original books was poor (compared to FF and Thor) and usually out of alignment with the blacks, so it was hard to see Syd's work. He was earthy, though, that was obvious, even to my 11-yr-old eyes.

    But now, having just re-read through the Sinnott TOS issues and looking anew at Syd, I gotta say that he really elevated Jack's work! In many ways he actually surpassed even Joe's work on CA (though Joe is truly the greatest inker ever, at least on Jack). Syd didn't have either Joe's speed or his brush control (who does?), but he added a realism and light/shadow detail that was second only to Wally Wood's Sky Masters work. I actually value Syd's work on CA over Sinnott's TOS pages. Jack and Syd were a great team!

    This splash is a perfect example. Kirby purists will hate me for this, but Syd transformed Jack's pencils into a minor masterpiece. For example, compare the legs in the penciled version. Well, there is no comparision. Jack's work was pretty rushed and sloppy, but his dynamism and layout genius were still there. Syd picked up where Jack left off and the result is just beautiful!

    Overall, I get the impression that Jack pencilled looser for Syd than he did for some other inkers. I believe it's because he knew Syd was going to provide finishes anyway. Perhaps Jack new of the purported plan to have Syd eventually take over the pencilling and responded accordingly. In support of this theory, I must admit that I haven't seen any tightly-penciled pages that were inked by Shores.

    But that's as it should have been: Jack pencilling 60 (SIXTY) INCREDIBLE, WONDERFUL pages a month, and leaving the details for Syd, Vince, and Joe to polish off.

    No doubt about it: Given the scrooge-like budget of the '60s Marvel bullpen, Stan made the best use of these artists that he could have.

  • 3 years 25 weeks ago | kc (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture

    I am convinced later inkers like Berry would have made Cap's features a lot more square vs Sid's rounded knees etc. I am SURE BOTH versions would have been STELLAR regardless

  • 3 years 25 weeks ago | Gary A. Picariello (not verified)
    Anonymous's picture

    A great splash page and more awesome Kirby artwork that risks being lost to the ages if not for forums such as this!